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Commit 06fc0df

Rendered at 09:11:32 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Rails + React on Rails RSC.

Wine ported to OpenBSD (marc.info)

611 points by iamnothere 1d ago | 213 comments

haunter 1d ago
Gameplay videos

Disco Elysium https://video.gamerstavern.online/w/qYjXr8dBauynzvEquJ7cP4

Hollow Knight https://video.gamerstavern.online/w/8tjjFRDtGJQZwxfE4ojVoC

Prey 2017 https://video.gamerstavern.online/w/vNxVThRcpijbT9FAQPcKdz

Death Stranding https://video.gamerstavern.online/w/rzz2TLCxcmneHsydukAFLU

Witcher 3 Remastered https://video.gamerstavern.online/w/oZcTRKL5JMiU4M4FqGKcNH

According to the reddit post:

AMD Ryzen 9 9900X, 16GB RAM, AMD Radeon RX 9070

Maken 1d ago
I'm really surprised VKD3D works out of the box. So many abstraction layers stacked on top of each other feel like a jenga tower on the brink of falling.
qalmakka 1d ago
Vkd3d is a PE executable, if wine works and Vulkan works then it works too, as long as the required extensions are present
braiamp 1d ago
It targets vulkan, so if BSD has vulkan drivers it is agnostic
nottorp 1d ago
Whoa, openbsd has 3d hardware drivers? Only open source i guess, no official drivers?
brynet 1d ago
Yes, the upcoming OpenBSD 8.0 release will have inteldrm/radeondrm/amdgpu drivers from Linux 6.18.y/6.18.53.

https://bsd.network/@brynet/117407035545900963

bentley 1d ago
Correct, those are the versions in the coming release.

For those not familiar with OpenBSD, it’s had an accelerated amdgpu driver since 2019, and inteldrm/radeondrm for a few years longer, generally kept up to date with Linux stable throughout that time.

daneel_w 1d ago
> ... and inteldrm/radeondrm for a few years longer ...

Since many years longer, including the nv(4) driver for old Nvidia GPUs up to the earliest GTX models.

brynet 1d ago
nv(4) is the old 2D user modesetting X driver (DDX), for legacy devices.

There is no kms drm or 3D acceleration for nvidia on OpenBSD.

Melatonic 1d ago
How's the performance ?
Maken 1d ago
The open source drivers are the official ones for Intel and AMD.
asveikau 1d ago
They port the open source Linux drivers. FreeBSD does this too. Maybe others.

Over time there can be periodic drift and out of date drivers until they re-sync, but it usually works pretty well.

nottorp 1d ago
Obvious in hindsight, shows how much of a BSD noob I am :)
asveikau 1d ago
Another interesting story is that on FreeBSD, Nvidia actually provides a port of their proprietary binary driver. The user mode piece does not support cuda, but I successfully ran a Linux emulator container that can run cuda with a FreeBSD kernel. I use it to run llms on FreeBSD.

But that is freebsd, not openbsd. I couldn't imagine it on OpenBSD because the priorities are very different

daneel_w 1d ago
OpenBSD has had hardware-accelerated 2D and OpenGL since, well, forever-ish. Just not for modern Nvidia GPUs.
Onavo 1d ago
What about the most difficult game of all, Microsoft Office?
nomel 1d ago
You'll need to wait for Wine to be ported to Windows for that one!
anthk 1d ago
It's ported. WineD3D.
spl757 1d ago
wut lol
Koshkin 15h ago
This wasn't a joke. It is well-known that Wine is the best and the most stable implementation of the Win32 API out there (closely followed by ReactOS).
jamesy0ung 6h ago
Have they finally got Windows 7 era Paint working yet?
tokyovigilante 1d ago
This is actually really easy, I've had an abliterated Qwen 3.8 FN working on it.

Current Wine just needs a couple of fixes from upstream libxml2 to be able to use the Retail C2R (Click-To-Run) installer, then the apps themselves work fine with a few Direct2D patches (see the effort to get Paint.NET running).

The real issue is that getting activation (even using MAS tooling) working requires a real Windows kernel running for the Warbird-protected activation system, after two weeks I gave up, 99% of my MSO needs are provided by Artcraft now anyway...

drnick1 1d ago
Surely the activation thing can be cracked? People used to do this all the time not so long ago.
tokyovigilante 23h ago
Most tools rely on functioning Windows crypto, which was more complicated than I was willing to delve into to replicate. It probably can be done, and the Warbird source was partially leaked a while ago.
haunter 1d ago
If you don’t need the newest version then volume licensed 2016 the last one which can be installed without activation
tiahura 6h ago
Vibecoded wine activation fix was posted here a week ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49746401

tokyovigilante 3h ago
Yup, that will do for 0365 and volume licensing, not the standard retail installers though.
nxobject 1d ago
Hey, modern versions of Excel have a GPU-accelerated computation engine.
gigatexal 23h ago
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4aRTR6uE9PE, not even modern, it's been there for years.
NethIafin 1d ago
I would've checked it, if their Office 365... sorry... COPILOT OFFICE... wasn't such a problem to install and test. Notepad++ is enough.
ahartmetz 1d ago
I think the canonical name is MS Copilot for Copilot.
simonh 1d ago
As far as I can tell it's actually Office 365 Copilot for Windows 11 with Copilot, for Copilot+ PCs.
goodmythical 17h ago
Microsfot Office 365 Copilot for Microsoft Windows 11 with Microsoft Copilot, for Microsfot Copilot+ PCs brought to you by Microsoft Office 365 Copilot for Microsfot Windows 11 with Microsfot Copilot, for Microsfot Copilot+ PCs.
whattheheckheck 1d ago
Did you know MS Copilot can now be driven by Github Copilot Harness?
blablabla123 1d ago
It's Microsoft 365 Copilot ;)
tosti 1d ago
with CoPilot
sellmesoap 1d ago
Yeah I tried that game once it's not for me, I heard the old boss tried to EOL civilization as we know it!
nilamo 1d ago
Luckily(?) Office is browser based now.
thesuitonym 1d ago
I mean... You can open Office documents in the browser, but for anything beyond basic tasks it's not even close.
prmoustache 1d ago
For most users it is enough. I know a number of companies that nowadays only provides the basic office365 license to their employees (which disable access to desktop apps) for cost saving reasons. They only provide the full license to a small subset of administrative users who are totally irrelevant in an OpenBSD related discussion as they would use windows or MacOS desktop anyway.
DarkmSparks 19h ago
its not enough tho. because even the most basic of users still need to open and edit files from advanced users.

recent only office builds are not quite there, but far superior to office Web.

nilamo 1d ago
I honestly thought there wasn't even an offline installer anymore, and office.com was the only way to open documents in office these days.
jasomill 1d ago
The typical Office installer is a small bootstrapper that requires an Internet connection to download required files, but applications themselves are native and work offline (some features and applications use web tech for UI, of course).

Subscription-based licensing requires periodic check-ins, but perpetual product key-based licensing is available, though compared to the subscription versions, the release cadence for new features is slow.

The online component of traditional apps like Excel works best as a means for sharing documents, with the web UIs useful for reading and light editing, and the same documents fully editable in the native apps.

daneel_w 1d ago
Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop right there, Evel Knievel.
ahartmetz 1d ago
You could try Age of Empires, its menus have the same charm.

(Its presentation is so stiff that I refused to play it - it's supposedly a very good game, but I just couldn't bear playing what felt like MS Office)

wolrah 1d ago
There was a whole era of mid '90s Microsoft games where they were still competing with "Exit to DOS to get the best game experience" so they went out of their way to make sure you were aware you were running in Windows while playing their games. Aside from the early Age of Empires games I also recall the "Madness" family of racing games had different takes on the same idea from a variety of different developers. I actually just reinstalled Monster Truck Madness 1 the other day and have been working my way through trying to bodge it in to being an acceptable experience for this exact reason. The game itself runs fine but the UI does a lot of weird things that may have worked on Windows 9x with a low-res CRT but are very annoying on a modern system.
blablabla123 1d ago
I'm having a blast with AoE I on Linux, in this case the Definitive Edition. I don't think it looks like Office though ;) But what is true, it's tricky to get running on WINE. With Proton which I use the configuration works by default though IIRC.
t-3 1d ago
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=179241414029592

> I doubt much will be merged upstream. Many updates we have can technically run on other OSes (%gs stubs won't be built on Linux because %gs is correctly set, SIGUSR1 will work but less optimally, etc). However I picked an approach where everything that is done for OpenBSD is just marked as OpenBSD only. I did that purely to simplify my life while I was working on it and clearly mark the changes.

> When I was talking to Wine maintainers a month ago, they were hesitant to accept even patching Wine so it compiles for OpenBSD, mostly because it's another OS they will have to support and keep operational, while the %gs stub fix is something they definitely cannot take upstream. They are very hesitant to take anything that is changing the "emulated" application code.

iamnothere 1d ago
Yes, unfortunately OpenBSD maintainers will have to keep this running for now. NetBSD is apparently in a similar situation. Perhaps their efforts can be pooled at some point if the patches don’t diverge too much.
RunSet 1d ago
Especially welcome news now that OpenBSD is shaping up to be a refuge from slopcode.

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411620801633&w=2

greyw 1d ago
OpenBSD will probably fall even further behind
vdombr 1d ago
Yeah, they won't have a chance to rewrite cp and mv in Rust.
greyw 1d ago
I mean OpenBSD's utils cant even match GNU's coreutils so I think they have bigger problems
ninjin 1d ago
"Can't even match GNU's coreutils"? Care to elaborate? Last time I checked OpenBSD is pretty much in line with Posix and there are plenty of us that consider many of the GNU extensions to be anti-features.
mahboi 1d ago
I use a Mac, so the CLIs are the BSD versions. I don't have any opinion on which is better, but it's just annoying that it's different from GNU, so a lot of my work ends up being on a Linux VM or server instead. POSIX compliance doesn't seem to buy me anything. I like the BSD license though.
greyw 1d ago
Thats exactly what I mean. I dont care about Posix or the whining about "anti-features". The BSD stuff is a clear subset that doesnt get the job done.

Posix is more an art form documenting the far gone past rather than a practical tool

thomashabets2 1d ago
I am not the parent commenter, but I have the same sense that the GNU ones are better.

But the only concrete example I can think of is that `cat -n a b`, if `a` doesn't end in a newline, produces something that is obviously not what the user wanted. GNU cat does it right.

I didn't report it to the openbsd people because I didn't want them to yell at me that `-n` is nonstandard anyway with no "right" behavior, so I should STFU. Which would be what I'd expect from having reported problems in the past.

Quitschquat 1d ago
I think that's a cultural thing in *BSD.
0c3ca83 1d ago
That's kind of like saying that the MacOS UI can't even keep up with Microsoft Windows. Who wants inconsistent GNU halfassery?
Krssst 1d ago
There are already OSes that include LLM code (such as Linux). It's fine to have a few that don't.
frumplestlatz 1d ago
It is, but an already niche operating system that refuses to leverage the advantages of LLMs is only going to fall further and further behind. I say that as someone who has actively contributed to the BSDs since the 90s and would hate to see that happen.

The slop problem is very real. People are spewing reams of bad code that generates entropy faster than humans or LLMs can clean it up. LLM best practices are not yet obvious, and we're still figuring out how best to leverage them while maintaining code quality and human understanding.

... but LLMs are coming whether we want them or not. Models keep consistently improving, the slop keeps getting better, and human-only development is going to struggle to keep up.

In my day job, I'm driving an enormous number of tokens at Astra+Ultramax solving problems in Lean 4 that previously we never would have attempted simply due to the incredible human engineering cost; we review the high-level lemmas and let it prove the rest.

LLMs are the only solution I've seen over these decades that could finally close the feature/usability gap between mainstream and more niche operating systems -- software support, features, drivers, and other broad usability barriers. All of that has historically been far too much work for a much smaller developer community to reasonably undertake.

Hating AI isn't going to make it go away.

coldpie 19h ago
If you follow the provided link, you'll see that the objection is about copyright, not quality: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411620801633&w=2 As someone who has certainly had his work sucked up into LLMs without consent or compensation, this seems like a reasonable stance to me.
bitfilped 1d ago
"Behind" what exactly? This isn't a race to a finish line, it's an OS being developed.
serf 1d ago
that's ridiculous.

one of the reasons that BSDs are less popular is because of the community advice of "The best supported machine is a ten + year old thinkpad."

so yeah you're right there isn't a finish line, but you do need to keep up with current stuff enough to give a possible fan base a decent selection of hardware to run the thing on.

in other words : if the companies that the BSDs already had a hard time keeping up with hasten development via LLMs the gap will grow ever wider until a critical point is hit and the thing becomes irrelevant.

if linux is the only show in town that supports flashy-hardware-Z then it's going to drive audience migration.

the thing that has allowed openbsd to adopt new things so slowly is a rock-solid set of core competencies; the amount that bsd is entrenched into the internet itself makes irrelevance hard to imagine -- but it's still a facet.

I still hear people bitch that BSDs don't support WiFi, and that hasn't been true in years and years.

margalabargala 1d ago
What does "behind" actually mean, though?

Think about how far Linux has/hasn't come in the last 10 years. The user experience is nicer, drivers "just work" more, there's more support for more stuff...but at the end of the day, the actual computing experience is mostly the same today as when I installed Debian back in 2016. It's polish, interoperability, etc that's improved.

Maybe VR takes off and takes over the desktop, and then openBSD can't keep up with that, but I don't think that's likely. So what are they trying to "keep up" with?

atmosx 1d ago
The number of OpenBSD contributors, since 2017 is going down. For all the praise the system gets here, the developer team is small. And feature-wise the system is a toy compared to Linux. It's like comparing DigitalOcean with AWS.

Ppl praise the stance of OpenBSD/NetBSD and what-not. That's commendable, but then close the tab, open their spotify and get back to agentic programming for their proprietary company source. But God-forbid if OpenBSD turns anything more than a museum OS, full of purity but with a user-base of five. Because the GPU doesn't work properly, the sound drive is clunjy, wifi might work, etc.

LLMs could port huge amount of drivers to both system with a fraction of the effort. Specs can be implemented easily and properly. Then of course, you need to test and that takes time, but it's technically easier and more ppl could contribute.

I get the feeling, but they're not OpenBSD a favor, if anything else I feel the exact opposite is happening.

nomel 1d ago
> What does "behind" actually mean, though?

In this case, reading the link you're replying under, it's being able to mount a disk formatted with a popular filesystem. The alternative here is waiting for a human to type this relatively "solved" problem, as a procedural requirement, more than anything.

So, it can easily mean "things won't work in this OS". But, that's to be expected with FreeBSD, for legitimately good (from the perspective of FreeBSD) reasons.

ethin 1d ago
As one example I can think of, there are a ton of devices that only work on Windows (or Windows and MacOS). The audio interface I have is one example: its "official drivers" are Windows and MacOS only. I know that someone is trying to make Linux drivers for it, using LLMs, because if there's one thing LLMs are very good at, it's RE and figuring out how hardware works. One of my other friends made an accessible equivalent to the Razer app for his Razer headphones because the official app is complete shit.
bitwize 1d ago
Bugfixes, feature implementation, and hardware support will not be able to be added to OpenBSD with the speed that they are added to Linux.

Whether you like this new reality or not, it is an objective fact that LLMs are the silver bullet Fred Brooks told us didn't exist—multiplying development speed by 10x or more—and that if you're not using them you are hobbling yourself. This especially goes for a "security-focused" OS like OpenBSD, because AI is more diligent about finding vulnerabilities and can do so without rest. Meaning that if you're serious about security, you are using AI to harden your software... and if not, someone else is using it to hack you.

freedomben 1d ago
Yep, drivers are one of if not the biggest blocker in my experience, and that's an area AI can help immensely
segmondy 1d ago
Then vibe up the ones you need for yourself.
Angostura 1d ago
‘Click to write and install driver’
overfeed 1d ago
> 'Click to write and install driver’

Theo de Raadt would spin in his grave — after the security implications of this to OpenBSD gives him a fatal aneurysm.

Either that, or he'll surprise-launch OpenLLM, a model bundled in the next OpenBSD release that produces driver code free of security bugs.

saidnooneever 1d ago
openBSD is ahead. depending on what u need. If u want a PC with tons of apps and even more security issues by all means, they are far behind ;).
greyw 1d ago
Following that line of reasoning a turned off pc is the farthest ahead. Its extremly secure after all and has no apps ;)
saidnooneever 13h ago
thats why i turn mine off when its unused :D
Brian_K_White 1d ago
This isn't the result of following any sort of reasoning at all.
greyw 23h ago
Even LLMs understood my joke. Its probably time for you to make use of modern tools :)
saidnooneever 12h ago
his reasoning is sound. no pc no vulns. this is simple logic. its maybe not practical, but that wasnt being debated. OpenBSD isnt very practical either. It is pretty securable though for an ring0/3 system.
acedTrex 1d ago
Excellent, it will remain stable
lioeters 1d ago
Good.
noosphr 1d ago
If you don't break the law you do indeed fall further behind people who do.

Nothing in that post is against using an LLM. It's all about copyright:

>Since every file in OpenBSD has been continually verified to ensure correct Copyright, and we've even deleted code which has incorrect Copyright, the chances of us accepting such new code with such a suspicious Copyright situation is zero.

Once the current bubble pops we're going to see a lot of litigation over copyright enfringement by LLMs. Currently no one wants to rock the boat because everyone hopes to make a trillion dollars from AI, Oracle included, once they see they can't the knives are going to come out and I wouldn't want to be Linux at that point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America

greyw 1d ago
Copyright will adapt.

Also my personal opinion about copyright _in the FOSS domain_ is that I simply dont care. Copyleft as the GNU folks like to call it is just using the copyright laws to achieves certain free software objectives. If that doesnt work anymore there will be another fix

noosphr 1d ago
Copyright adaptation literally means billion dollar lawsuits, because copyright only adapts after court decisions.

The BSD licences are not copyleft, or indeed part of the GNU copyright regime.

vconnor 1d ago
Yeah, the billion dollar lawsuits that are coming after the trillion dollar ones that are gonna hit the AI industry any day now.

Copyright is dead.

lelanthran 23h ago
> Copyright will adapt.

There's only two ways for copyright to go, either by being tightened up or by being loosened.

When has copyright protections ever loosened? We've got hundreds of years of copyright laws in multiple different jurisdictions, and I can't think of when they were, for all practical purposes, loosened.

If they are loosened, then sure, the AI companies win big here. If they are tightened, AI itself becomes almost useless (derivative of current works).

toast0 1d ago
> my personal opinion about copyright _in the FOSS domain_ is that I simply dont care.

You may not care, but if the OS you prefer to run is the defendant in a copyright case, that's likely to impact you in a negative way.

JdeBP 1d ago
It is amusing to see this point made in a discussion that is notionally about one of the BSDs.

"Those that do not learn history" and so forth.

lelanthran 23h ago
> You may not care, but if the OS you prefer to run is the defendant in a copyright case, that's likely to impact you in a negative way.

I mean, it's not like the BSDs stagnated and lost ground to Linux because of copyright lawsuits... oh, wait!

shevy-java 1d ago
Well, they were always slow. But they made a stand against AI slop, which is great. Look at how AI slop infiltrated the ruby core team. You even get slop-spammed down when you try to interact with e. g. Hiroshi Shibata, who suddenly has ... perfect english language skills. A few years ago his command over the english language was rather weak (which is fine by the way, I much prefer broken english from a real human than AI slop spam text as filter acting in between humans).
atmosx 1d ago
Then learn Japanese. No? So you can write broken Japanese and he doesn’t have to translate his words in English for you.
Brian_K_White 1d ago
He would use AI on your broken Japanese on his end.
smlacy 1d ago
Wow, I honestly didn't think HN would succumb to the AI := Slop perspective.
badc0ffee 1d ago
First time I've seen := used for equality and not assignment.
bionsystem 1d ago
On mac AZERTY keyboard those keys are next to each other, maybe it was a typo ?
arandomhuman 1d ago
Maybe he meant to assign slopness to the AI?
lionkor 1d ago
I think it's the complete saturation of the platform with members who make it feel like HN is a platform for people to boast about how many tokens they burnt to rewrite something that already worked fine.

It polarizes people to either join the "the LLM is my god" crowd or the "if AI touches the repo, it's all slop" crowd.

The careful balance is rarely discussed, probably because that's the part that still takes work.

kingcauchy 1d ago
It really depends on the post anymore. Have had a lot of really thoughtful discussions about the nuance that came out of HN convos. Seems like most businesses and people are still just trying to figure out.
necovek 1d ago
I think "careful balance" is the status quo even if people are unaware of it being so.

Agents and LLM-assisted coding currently work within the confines of already working hand-coded OSes, language frameworks, test harnesses and even CLI tooling. Pull one of those out, and agents become unhinged and they lose direction.

runeb 1d ago
I would hope that lazy polarization found some resistance on this particular forum
mahboi 1d ago
It has. You don't see a lot of people who are all-in on AI or against it.
kergonath 1d ago
Don’t worry, there’s plenty of true believers as well.
ranger_danger 1d ago
Although Theo seems to imply AI code is not welcome, this commit says Claude was used: https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/9c2b8e445a0bdfafdd6148...
ninjin 1d ago
Plenty of issues that have been patched recently found using such tools as well. OpenBSD's policy remains largely the same as always: You need to understand the patch you propose and it needs to be maintainable. The link elsewhere in this thread is mainly discussing large patches where it is unclear if the LLM drew too heavily on code elsewhere.
raddan 1d ago
OpenBSD's errata list has recently started growing rapidly, and the scale is a real departure from the past. I have taken to running syspatch much more regularly than in the past. Anyway, it's clear that the project's stance on AI is "as long as reports are detailed and high-quality (and probably from a person with a record of such work) the project will act on it." See slide 17 here: https://events.eurobsdcon.org/media/2026/submissions/ZGDXQR/...
ninjin 1d ago
Neat little link trick for PDFs:

https://events.eurobsdcon.org/media/2026/submissions/ZGDXQR/...

Talked to bluhm@ after that talk in Brussels and the general feeling (from what I can remember from the conversation) so far is that there is a large increase in overall reports (good and bad), but that the severity of what is reported has not really increased. This also mirrors my own experience from reading source-changes@. In essence, it seems like we have known how to build secure software for the last thirty or so years, just that most do not seem to have bothered to do so.

hias 1d ago
how do you think they made this wine port lol?
simonw 1d ago
Looks to me like it was made without AI assistance. https://github.com/NethIafin/wine/tree/openbsd-master
asveikau 1d ago
Afaik I think I saw the author say on reddit he used AI to prototype and then rewrote it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/s/k0dz2WrkCo

In that thread I suggested he submit it to the ports tree, I'm not sure if he took my advice or came up with the idea on his own. At any rate this is cool.

NethIafin 1d ago
I never hid the fact that I iterated with AI. It's pretty hard to commit to an approach if you don't even know if it will succeed. And boy oh boy this was a shot in the dark.

I also respect Wine and OpenBSD and their rules to not have any LLM code in the repo/ports. So my approach was to iterate over solutions, find approach that works, ask AI to "just see if my idea even works", learn what/how/why of that approach, generate some supporting manuals for myself (for example how to decode %gs instructions and how to reencode them) and then write my own code based just on decoding tables (and not LLM code).

I did not know how to work with REX/SIB/ModRM, how to detect prefixes, how to parse every single instruction that contains %gs, how offsets work, how to encode jmp rels, why I want to use JMP *0(%RIP) instead of JMP 32rel on return, why I want to leave stub on SIGUSR (or any other signal). But I do know now.

I was incredibly lucky that patching just these %gs instructions were enough to launch Factorio and play, with broken sound, but anyways! Holy molly this was and is so much FUN!

The approach still feels like cheating, and if it feels the same for you, I perfectly understand.

asveikau 1d ago
I'm way more ai skeptical than most HN users and I don't think you did anything wrong. Like I said in the reddit thread, the patches are cool. Kudos.
phillmv 1d ago
this strikes me as the responsible way to use AI period - test it out, see what works then clean it up until its something you understand & can feel good about.
MYEUHD 1d ago
Yes, he said the same on the mailing list[0] when he asking about a related thing 3 weeks ago:

> I had some success in porting Wine to amd64.OpenBSD. Was able to run a few = games. But that required in memory patching of %gs commands (LLM's suggesti= on and 1st implementation, then I re-did it from scratch - I'm not that sma= rt with amd64 assembly code)

Also, it's not a single author. Other people contributed significantly and their contributions don't seem written by AI: https://github.com/NethIafin/wine/commits/openbsd-master/

[0]: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=179070255546118&w=2

NethIafin 1d ago
At that time, that LLM built solution was like 3+ weeks old if not more. It's just me and Fabien for now though. Rest are working on helping us turn it into a nice Port Wine
thesuitonym 1d ago
Some people are actually competent and know what they're doing.
NethIafin 1d ago
Soon like with Speedrun submissions, we will have to show ourselves livestream coding to avoid any AI usage suspicions
ranger_danger 1d ago
Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
baq 1d ago
at this point in the timeline you need evidence to the contrary, safe to assume most code is AI generated or AI assisted at the very least
mahboi 1d ago
If "slopcode" means code where the author consulted AI at all, yeah. But it's pretty easy to tell if the author AI-spammed without even reviewing all of it, or even if they did review it but didn't hand-type it. The email says "you did not write them, you said an AI did," so the author did admit to using AI at the same time they claimed copyright over the code.
ataraxia937 1d ago
I find it amusing and appropriate that the surname of the author of that message is Frohwein. "Happy wine" in German.
hbn 1d ago
It's ironic that it looks like "frown"
spirographer 1d ago
I came here looking for your comment!
philipallstar 1d ago
Missed opportunity to call it Port.
NethIafin 1d ago
I was (and partially probably still am) hoping that it will go upstream in some shape or form so I kept the original name.
teh64 1d ago
That already exists in the BSDs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ports_collection
itomato 1d ago
that's the joke
kingcauchy 1d ago
Probably being reserved for the OpenBrandSherryDaquiri rebranding.
mahboi 1d ago
I feel like there was some WINE-related thing called Port.
simonw 1d ago
OpenBSD apparently still uses CVS. I found this GitHub mirror of their ports repo which has the new wine port: https://github.com/openbsd/ports/tree/master/emulators/wine

That has a static import from 13 hours ago. Anyone know if this wine port has its own repository somewhere else tracking the history of the development effort?

ninjin 1d ago
"Still uses CVS", I mean, CVS worked twenty years ago and it still works today for all the platforms OpenBSD supports. If you prefer something else, that is all right, but here is emulators/wine on CVSWeb:

https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/ports/emulators/wine

iamnothere 1d ago
They mirror to GitHub regularly, but development still happens in CVS. They are building “got” as a potential replacement that allows git-driven development while following OpenBSD’s idiosyncratic approach: https://gameoftrees.org/goals.html

My guess is they based this on the similar NetBSD port but I don’t know where the repo is.

Edit: sibling commenter found it

rjsw 1d ago
The GitHub mirror of the equivalent NetBSD package is here [1].

[1] https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc/tree/trunk/emulators/wine

Maken 1d ago
In their official CVS they link to this repo: https://github.com/NethIafin/wine/tree/openbsd-master
NethIafin 1d ago
Against my better judgement and my personal sanity, I decided to keep issues there, at least for now
rootnod3 1d ago
The port itself doesn't mirror the wine code. It is just the recipe on how to build in on OpenBSD + necessary patches.
brynet 1d ago
I OK'd this port. I apologize in advance.
Xunie 1d ago
2026 is finally the year of the BSD gaming desktop!
BlackRabbit1 1d ago
Finally I can run Zonealarm on OBSD
GuinansEyebrows 1d ago
Still waiting on 64-bit BonziBuddy...
timcobb 1d ago
Kaspersky though
Bluescreenbuddy 1d ago
Good lord this is awesome
CodeCompost 1d ago
That is awesome. I take it I can't run this with nVidia.
ninjin 1d ago
Nvidia support for OpenBSD is not really a thing [1]. With AMD and Intel, you have support for modern hardware in the tree [2,3].

[1]: https://man.openbsd.org/nv

[2]: https://man.openbsd.org/amdgpu

[3]: https://man.openbsd.org/intel

XenophileJKO 1d ago
The irony is that this seems like the perfect kind of problem to say point an Opus 5.5 instance at.

It is verifiable and has a clear exit criteria. Functional and performance parity.

ninjin 1d ago
How is that ironic? If you know how to do this, ensure that the license of the code is compatible [1], and maintain the code, then send the patch to tech@ for review and maybe it gets in.

[1]: https://www.openbsd.org/policy.html

rootnod3 1d ago
Just be sure you understand the code 100% before sending it.
throwaway27448 1d ago
Out of curiosity, how much work/what sorts of openbsd-specific details must be addressed to get such a port working?
coldpie 1d ago
You can download the attachment and take a look at the patches. Wine already supports FreeBSD and macOS, so it's not tooooo crazy hard to add another BSD/Unix to the pile. Looks like there's a few Unix APIs that have drifted, so the patches add some #if OpenBSD style stuff to avoid using some symbols that don't exist on OpenBSD. The gs register stuff is by far the most complex bit. IIRC that register is used for thread-local storage on Windows, but for other purposes on other OS's, so handling access from win32 binaries to the gs register is a big problem when porting to a new OS.

On the whole it looks well written to me, especially with how complex & low-level these areas of Wine are. Good work to the author. I'd encourage them to try upstreaming it if they're interested. Some of it looks a little hacky, which upstream will object to, but maybe they could get some help cleaning it up, which will avoid having to maintain a diff and result in an even better port.

Edit: Oh, looks like they already talked with upstream https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=179241414029592 It's not a huge diff to maintain, so maybe that is the better route. Great work either way.

NethIafin 1d ago
There are some basic OpenBSD-isms like ucontext, stack mapping, mmap, fix trap context so rest of the %gs patching logic even knows where to work.

Rest is basically ~~two~~ three main issues 1. %gs/gsbase - we trap on %gs instructions because %gs=0 gsbase=0 so all of them illegally point at page zero. So we take the instruction, decode, turn it into %gs-less instruction, and stow it somewhere else. To do conversion we need a scratch register (now two, thanks MINGW32-GCC, you c*nt), we replace whatever gsbase should've been with our TEB pointer, and gogogo (with restore of the scratch register state {or two}). Old instruction (if wide enough) becomes jmp rel32 (I picked it because it is 5 bytes, and short jump branches are too... short). If it isn't, we are just constantly trap on that so we just create a hash between trap location and stub location. Those cases are thankfully rare.

Just this one patch gives us Notepad, Notepad++, Factorio, and many many other games

2. SIGUSR1. Basically Windows lets threads chat thru their thread API, and Electron apps (I really wanted Eve Online to work) and Chromium apps constantly chat and interrogate each other with that thread API. Wine decided to emulate some of the APIs with unix signals. Now the main issue here is that OpenBSD, does not allow one process to signal a thread in another process. So we catch it with the currently active thread, and reemit it now inside of the process as SIGUSR2. Read on SuspendThread, GetThreadContext, ReadProcessMemory, and why Mojo/Crashpad works how they work, very fun! Makes you really enjoy the security OpenBSD gives you. Another dev is making this code better and handle other SIGnals.

3. ReadProcessMemory / WriteProcessMemory (NtReadVirtualMemory / NtWriteVirtualMemory) - this is also for Electron/Chromium but mostly Steam. We only needed it majorly when we started pushing towards steam working. Steamwebhelper, steam overlay, and steam watching you play and tracking your game time, are completely against OpenBSD's security model. Wine processes are not descendants of wineserver, so wineserver cannot ptrace them unless you enable kern.global_ptrace=1. We were trying to keep kernel as stock as possible so...

2 and 3 are very much together and if you ever seen on windows how chrome looks in the Task Manager and how many chrome processes there are, well now you know my pain, haha

ericfrederich 1d ago
My first thought was this must have something to do with the development momentum around the PS5 but that apparently runs FreeBSD not OpenBSD.
yass0 1d ago
I am sure this has something to do with all the PS5 jailbreak work that is massively happening recently.
kogasa240p 1d ago
Impressive! Wonderful to see that the BSDs are getting love these days.
imagetic 1d ago
Yes. More of this.
shevy-java 1d ago
Now the BSDs are not so popular compared to Linux, but I think this is great news as more eyes help here. Let's have EVERYTHING from windows portable towards linux. (I struggled with the 32-bit versus 64-bit stuff; this should also be a prime goal for wine to make this a trivial super-easy to solve thing for linux in general. Back then when I ran into this issue, it was not trivial to solve.)
raverbashing 1d ago
I wonder what's the state of 3D/OpenGL support on OpenBSD or if the games run into too many problems here
NethIafin 1d ago
> And one of the great things of having a Wine port is that It just works.|

Todd Howard probably

daneel_w 1d ago
There's been hardware-accelerated OpenGL in OpenBSD for ages.
j45 1d ago
I remember reading once how far away something like this way to work - for all the time that BSD has kept servers and networks safer than other options, it's nice to see things like WINE making it there as well.

Its hard to not think of the possibility that BSD might offer new or different advantages to keeping legacy windows applications safe until there is a willingness to adopt or develop alternatives.

saurilabs 1d ago
This is awessome!
ndbe 1d ago
Insane work!

There's even the remaster of The Witcher running! If I had money I would simply gift to those guys.

StarlaAtNight 1d ago
I wish every post like this had an intro section that said:

“what is {insert obscure tech thing}”

“why do people typically use {insert obscure tech thing}”

GalaxyNova 1d ago
You don't know what OpenBSD or WINE is? I'm afraid that is on you.
latexr 1d ago
I wouldn’t call either Wine or OpenBSD “obscure”. Most people haven’t heard of them, sure, but they’ve each been going for three decades and should be known (at the very least by name) by any person with an interest in computing for more than making money.

But of course, no one is born knowing, so here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD

ryanschneider 1d ago
Semi-related, but I was just thinking today I wonder what sort of performance improvements, if any, one could see by having one of the frontier models build a operating system from scratch that targets the subset of imports WINE uses as the standard library? Basically, build whatever syscalls (or shims) WINE and the open source vulkan drivers need and nothing more.

Probably outside the scope of what an individual could pull off on thier own in a reasonable time, but I could totally see for example Valve considering that approach for a later iteration of SteamOS.